The Untold Story of Frankincense: Straight from the Source (Part 2)
Watch as Destiny and Laura D'Andrea, along with a panel of specialists, continue the discussion of the Untold Story of Frankincense and their combined efforts to fight for ethical and sustainable sourcing of the resin.
TRANSCRIPT:
Destiny D'Andrea
Hello beautiful people. Welcome back. So I as you can see, this isn't a Tarot reading. This is part two of the untold story of frankincense straight from the source. As you can see a couple of familiar faces, there's Mama Cup, which is my mom, Laura, and Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo. Again, for those of you that didn't see, we did the first episode of The Untold Story of frankincense, talking about the history, a bit about the biology, chemistry and all of that good stuff. So today, we are really going to focus on the mission. And she's going to facilitate this channel here, but I did want to just kind of let you guys know that I'm really trying to offer you guys content, that you know, we're all on a spiritual ascension journey. And this spiritual ascension journey leads to something, and it leads to mission. I hope that this content inspires you guys to step into mission. I just wanted to kind of just give you context as to why I'm doing this content. And willl continue to do this content. And I hope it inspires you. But I'm gonna pass it over to Dr. Anjanette. Thank you again, for coming back. We didn't scare you away.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
No, not at all. I love the Queen's Cup tribe, and I'm really happy to be here with all of you today. Let me just give a little overview of what we're doing. So you guys saw the last two interview that we did about frankincense. And we didn't really get too much into the problems in frankincense, and the solutions. And we are today. And the reason why we want to do that is because we want to share with the tribe, transparency of what the issues are in the field so that you can all understand what this team right here is doing to address those problems and to do mission-driven work.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
We talked about parity versus socially responsible business. And that being a driver of humanitarian efforts that are tied to business, equal partnerships across Africa and Americans and Canadians to be equally empowered. And really, you're sitting with a group right now you're looking at a group of people who are equally empowered partners in a shared vision to have sustainable and ethical frankincense brought to the world and especially to the smudging community. So just keep that in the back of your mind as you're listening to them today that this is an approach to humanitarian or mission-driven work by doing just socially responsible business. So let me just introduce everybody a little bit who they are. And I'm going to start with Abdirizak Mohammed. He's also known as Jamal which makes it easier for us Westerners. So thanks Jamal, for giving a great nickname to yourself like that. He's the founder. He's also a frankincense land owner, which means his family owns trees, and he is the director of Dayaxa Frankincense export company. It's a social enterprise created by Jamal to provide a fair market access to the harvesters in Dayaxa Somaliland where Jamal was born.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Next to Jamal, we have Stephen Johnson and Stephen Johnson is a frankincense and myrrh supplier. He's a researcher and consultant. He has done extensive field work in West Africa and East Africa and the Arabian Peninsula and has published over a dozen papers on frankincense - and we've published many of those together, so Stephen and I have worked as a team for many years. He's founder now of FairSource Botanicals, which focuses on building socially economic, economically and regenerative supply chains. Next is Laura. who many of you know as Mama Cup, she is Destiny's mom. What you might not know about her is that she has 25 years of corporate experience with 20 plus of those years leading commercial teams and national brand strategy and health and beauty so it's pretty amazing to have Mama Cup here. You all know Destiny she's a gifted tarot card reader blew my mind with my tarot card reading gave me some messages really needed to hear it. But she's now branching out. And she's engaging in mission driven work to bring sustainable and ethical smudging products to all of you. And this will be a first. There's no other company or entity that that we know of that is doing this kind of work to bring sustainable and ethical smudging products, which are so important to this community. And that is the team y'all know me already. So we're gonna kick this off Jamal, and give you the floor you and Steven 10 minutes each before we hear from Laura, and then Destiny will wrap it up. So Jamal, the floor is yours.
Abdirizak Mohamed
Thank you. Thank you. I just want to introduce myself, obviously, my name is Abdirizak Mohamed and I was born in Somaliland. And I left Somaliland when I was about four or five, because of the war. So we moved to Norway, me and my family lived there for 16-17 years, then moved to UK - lived here for about 15 years now and got family here married here kids and I live the happily working and then one day I got a call from my dad say oh we got Frankincense back home. Hardly knew what it was, had just heard about it from school and Frankincense is the gold from the church and stuff like that. I said okay, let me see. I looked at Google there look through and thought, okay, people actually making money out of this. I spoke to my dad about it and I told him this is something I want to get involved in too. So I spoke to one of my partners, Paul Bell, and I told him my story. I said, "this is what's happening back home, I want to visit."
Abdirizak Mohamed
So about a couple of months after, I visit Somaliland. This is my second time. First time I visited was 2007. I was a little bit younger. Anyway, in 2019 I went to Erigavo where my family lives and the farms and where it all starts from. I met my uncles, auntiea, grandmoms, family members that I haven't met for years - that I've never seen in my life. So it was a good time to see the family, they show me the trees, the show me where the farm is, what they do, and how they do it. And I find it very hard to believe. This is where everything starts from. And I looked at the people how they live, the life they live in. And I found it very hard that actually people are making millions out of this. And people are living in poverty, no water, no schools, no nursery, not even entertainment for the kids. And it's lots of kids that lives there women all they do to sit around and wait for the Frankincense is and that's all they know. So I found it hard and I asked them "Who do you sell this to?" They said we sell this to middlemen that works and we work with the whole year and give this all this to the middlemen for cheap prices. And then they sell it to big companies and/or other middlemen, and then they sell it for much more money.
Abdirizak Mohamed
So I spoke to my dad about Paul Bell and I said I want to do something about this. I want to change it. I want to help the people give them fair price for their frankincense and help them out. So, it took three years to get where I am right now to do the research. Me and Paul contacted Stephen about two and a half years ago, and we got we started from there. And we took steps it was a small steps at first you know, we believe we are in the right place right now to help the people and for my plan and his plan to actually work. We want to help - we want to at least give water to them because they walk about seven miles to get water. That's the nearest water supply they have. Mostly the people that do this are the women. So they have to carry bowls on their backs and on their heads and carry seven miles to carry them back. And the men is the ones that go and climb the trees. I have found out while I was on the trip in 2019, that I have lost loads of uncles cousins, just recently in 2019, my cousins passed away that I never met in my life. So it was very sad. And I do feel sorry for the people. And I do want to change that. And hopefully me and Stephen, and hopefully with you lot, and everyone else, we can help these people get what they need. Because they need schools because the kids aren't educated. So obviously, they're not going to be educated to take care of the trees. So because people often harvest fraknincense because they're hungry, they haven't got money. And people are coming to them telling them I want this much amount of tons of frankincense. So the people over harvest the trees, and these people are not educated to know maybe that they're actually hurting the trees or they're damaging the trees. So obviously we want to educate younger people that are obviously going to take over for the older lot in a few years time. So that's my story, first of all. Keep it short and sweet.
Stephen Johnson
I have some pictures as well. If I can just share my screen real fast, and pull them out. It helps illustrate
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
The audience is asking how we can help - we're getting there. We're going to tell you how you can help. And one of the ways that you're going to see after all these presentations is that you can buy frankincense through Destiny and Laura because these two guys right here are the ones supplying that frankincense and bringing it from all over the world to you. And when you see what their socially responsible format is for their company, I think you'll be pretty compelled.
Abdirizak Mohamed
As you can see, this is the village that my family's from. My uncles, aunties, grandmoms, granddad, all live there, and this is all they have. As you can see, can't see any water, no nurseries, no places for the kids to play. There's no hospital, anything. The closest hospital for them is Ngabo - that's about a 40 minute drive from where they are. That 40 minutes is mainly stuck on the road. And this is where the trees are.
Stephen Johnson
And that's really important as well because you can see it so that there's a lot of areas here that are very steep and that's where a lot of the frankincense grows. And harvesters often you know will fall or trip and be injured in these very remote areas because they don't have any safety equipment. And there's and like Jamal said it's a very long distance to get to any kind of significant medical attention.
Destiny D'Andrea
It's incredibly dangerous to harvest frankincense, especially in this area.
Stephen Johnson
And yeah, for a good chunk of the harvesting season, they spend it up in the farms right, in these like encampment areas?
Abdirizak Mohamed
This is where they're camping right now. And they stay there for about two to three months sometimes in this kind of place. No heat, nothing to sleep on so they're sleeping on the floor, no water is close to them. So they had to travel to get water every day, food. So, I stayed there for one night, and I couldn't handle it.
Stephen Johnson
So pretty, pretty rough.
Abdirizak Mohamed
For them to stay there for weeks and months. It's very hard. Hopefully, we can change that.
Stephen Johnson
And just show you this is the raw frankincense. Like when it's immediately come off the tree, and it's being dried in one of these caves here up on the farms. So yeah, going kind of off of that, we just wanted to share this, which is kind of our vision of how we're going to make a positive impact as a business. And this looks a little complicated, but it's actually a very simple concept. And it's just what Jamal was saying about how the people there have, you know, historically been stuck in a position where they're just having to sell their frankincense to middlemen for very low prices. There aren't many other economic activities, you know, it's one of the only livelihoods available. So, when we talk about overharvesting, we can't just talk about the trees, we have to talk about what's going on with the people. And when there is overharvesting, it's not necessarily because the people there don't know better, but you know, you can't expect people to take a long term sustainability based view and practice, if they're so backed into a corner that they're just having to get as much resin as they can today to take care of their needs and their families' needs today.
Stephen Johnson
So as a business sort of our view is that our responsibility is to support the frankincense harvesters and the people who are directly managing the trees, as well as their communities, which in turn supports them. So, you know, in terms of some of the things that we've talked about doing to get additional sources of income and additional options and livelihood options to increase the stability of the people there is things like honey, because that's something that is actually a very positive impact on frankincense trees. Bees love frankincense trees, flowers and resin actually, they actually collect frankincense resin and use it to protect their, their hives, they use it as natural medicine. So they're doing the exact same thing that we are. And then you know, other livelihood options - there's things like, you know, dates and small scale agriculture that could provide more income and more year-round stability. And then the other piece of that, of course, is as we're putting in these management inputs, as we're saying, okay we're doing X, Y, and Z to support harvesters and support their communities, then the harvesters are, of course, you know, harvesting the trees and managing those trees. And we need to be able to see what that impact is, as well. We need to know what's the intensity of the harvest? Is the amount of resin we're asking for sustainable? Or is there any issue? And the programs that we're doing, are they having the effect that we want them to have? Are they actually supporting? Are they actually translating into a healthy stable situation for both the trees and for the harvesters?
Stephen Johnson
So, one of the other things that we're doing is focusing on getting very fine scale monitoring for the frankincense trees in Dayaxa. All of these pictures are trees around Dayaxa. And so at this point we've photographed hundreds of trees, and we'll continue to do that and continue to take pictures of the same tree so that we can see, as time goes on that when there's regeneration that there's a little seedling, it is successfully transitioning to being an adult tree, or that, you know, this is the correct number of harvesting taps, this is going to be a sustainable level of harvesting for these trees, or on the other side, if there is any issue, we can catch it, and we can address it. And by doing that, we're aiming to create a sort of an adaptive management cycle where, again, we have a management input, or we do something to support the harvesters or to have an impact on the trees. And then we can monitor what that impact is and adjust what we are doing to support the community to make sure that that ultimately, we have not just good intentions, but but ultimately good impacts. And a big part of that is just really being able to be really close to the community and having good communication with them. So that's sort of the broad overview of how we are approaching sustainability and supporting the community and Dayaxa with the frankincense there.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Excellent. Listen, if you don't mind, I'm gonna give a question to Stephen and Jamal now. One of the questions is from Veronica. She's asking, so does there need to be emphasis on other agricultural products to help with the frankincense? That's a very relevant question. You were showing honey and dates and other things. And so can you just elaborate on that a little bit?
Stephen Johnson
Jamal, do you want to do this one? Or do you want me to? Alright, cool. So the bottom line is that it's not necessarily about honey, or dates or any specific thing. The key is that we want to make sure that the community is supported with a diversity of good livelihood options. That was one of the things that actually the community said to us, because obviously, you know, it doesn't work if we're just looking at it being like, "Oh, we think you need this, we think you need that." Obviously, any development has to come from them - what they want to see. And that was one of the major things that they identified that they need other livelihood options and other ways to earn income that's not just based on the frankincense, so that they can reduce the intensity a little bit. So just as we're looking at that, we're trying to think about, well, what are good livelihood options, and one of them is honey, because it has a positive impact on the ecosystem - especially on the frankincense trees - it definitely has a market, it's something that that that people can do there that's not technologically intensive or anything. And then stuff like small scale agriculture for things like dates or other dryland crops are also a good option. But those are two options within a broader set of things that we're looking at.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Great. Jamal, did you want to add anything to that?
Abdirizak Mohamed
Yeah. Because most of my family, we did ask them, what do they really need? Because we don't want to, we don't want them to over harvest the trees. So we asked them, What can we do for you to actually give the trees a rest for maybe a year or two? And they said, we do need another income from anywhere. So ask them what kind of income work will be good for you, and they did say farming, and stuff like that. And I did say, we will look into that all they need is someone to teach them how to do the greenhouses and stuff like that. And they will do it and they will actually rest the trees. They want to help the trees. But just no one has the money.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Yeah. So part of the mission driven work means asking the communities what they want, and not just telling them what to do. And that's a really big change in paradigm, right? Instead of people coming in and telling the communities we're going to do this and do that - which often fails and so much of aid work around the world has failed because of that approach - This is the new approach that is an equal partnership where people are being asked what do they want, and how can we work with you to all get to the same place, which is to have healthy communities and healthy trees? That's what we're all going for. And so, Laura, we're getting lots of questions right about we want to help we want to donate, we want to be a part of the solution, how can we help, and that's what you're going to address about conscious consumerism or conscious capitalism. So I'm gonna now turn it over to you.
Laura D'Andrea
Thank you. The knowledge that was just shared blows my mind, every time I hear this group of experts talking about frankincense and all of the effort and the work that's gone into years, as you've heard, getting to this point. And for me, you know, six months ago, I really didn't know very much about frankincense, I knew that Destiny was very passionate and very deeply connected to it. And I knew that she really saw it playing a big part and a big role in her future. And as she, you know, was pulling me in and I started to learn more about frankincense, and meet these experts, I became, you know, very fascinated about this ancient trade, and the fact that these people had come together to restore it, and the plight of these trees and the plight of the communities that harvest them. And, you know, as I learned more about it, I really started to see that it was like a healing journey, you know, so many diverse people coming together like this, in this way, with a common and aligned mission, to be honest, is something that I had never really seen or experienced before. And as the universe likes to do, I kind of had a choice I had to make, you know, kind of a, do I go back into the corporate world, you know, doing what I know how to do and really driving somebody else's agenda and driving their financial objectives, and representing their values? Or do I join forces with my daughter, on a healing journey of our own, and build a business where the abundance that we're fortunate enough to have directly impacts the harvesters, the trees and the communities? And that just kind of blew my mind in its simplicity. And I really, really got excited. And obviously, I made this choice, here I am. And so thank you, universe. And here we are on this on this journey. And what we're doing is we're building we're building Smudge Allot. And that is going to be a separate entity. And as we've been building our brand identity and building the platforms, we're going to be moving sort of the all things frankincense and myrrh business over to Smudge Allot.
Laura D'Andrea
I just want to take a pause, though, and express some gratitude to this tribe that has supported our venture from day one. And we've been jarring, we've been, you know, packing orders, we've been so excited every time that we see an order. And I just want to take a moment and express the gratitude that we feel because it's really empowered and helped us to invest in really building Smudge Allot into something special and important. And the reason that it's important is, I think, I started to see that economic development, building a bridge between our consumer and right directly to benefit the harvesters in the communities. That was what was going to make a change. I think donations are great, please don't misunderstand. And you know, we're always grateful. But I realized that putting our effort into building a real business that could change the circumstances and could level the playing field, quite honestly, was the way that we were going to have the impact. And so off to work, we went, you know, building this business, and you will see more about sort of the launch and the things that we're working on very, very shortly. And one of the big important components of what we're doing, is we're kind of challenging this idea of, you know, capitalism and humanitarianism are mutually exclusive terms. And unfortunately, that has been the case and still is the case. But I think this tribe is a great example of, you know, people starting there's a kind of a collective rising consciousness that's happening, and people and companies are starting to ask the question, you know, where does what I produce or or sell or consume come from, and how does it impact the world? And so we want to help kind of bring that to light through this coalition. This isn't, this isn't one of us, this is a chain link, if you will. And each part is extremely important to make this happen and to bring this this to reality, and you you guys, and your support and your can connectedness to what we're doing, and your spiritual alignment is essential. I mean, without you, none of this happens. And so you are an integral part of this mission. And one of the exciting things that Smudge Allot will do is to bring you on the journey with us, it's going to be to connect you directly to the people, the communities and the trees, and be on the journey with us so that you have a firsthand account and experience of when you support our business. All of the benefits that that is driving right across this chain or this bridge that we're building. And Destiny has incredible creative content ideas that are really next level that really kind of make this an end to end transparent healing journey. And so that is going to be a big part of what we're going to do and we're very excited about. So, that's Smudge Allot.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Oh, it's so exciting. So we can start to have people dropping questions. But just right, before we do, Laura, I just I just want to say for the audience that the conscientious consumer is such an important part of this overall dynamic. So what you're seeing right here is you have conscientious business people who are going to work on poverty alleviation and environmental sustainability, by selling frankincense in a way that empowers the community directly through Smudge Allot to you. And that is not the normal model for frankincense or that's not the current model. The dominant model is taking advantage of the communities, not caring about the poverty that they're experiencing, not caring too much about the trees and sort of turning a blind eye to that whilst making lots of profit. And so this is a very revolutionary way to modernize the frankincense supply chain, which is quite large. I mean, people all over the world love frankincense. There's a lot of passion and a lot of emotion around frankincense. And so the time is now to do something about it. And the answer is not to stop using frankincense. In fact, the answer is to use it from sources that are empowering the communities and the environment and everybody getting pure and 100% Pure frankincense. Let's also shout out that, that there's a lot of adulterated frankincense on the market. Whether it's an incense product or an oil, it is one of the most highly adulterated essential oils on the market. And so the products that Jamal and Steven are bringing to Laura and Destiny are 100% Pure frankincense, so we're covering all three bases, the community, the trees, and the quality of the product.
Laura D'Andrea
I want to build on that too. Anjanette because I think that this is even outside of only frankincense. If you think about a lot of businesses, they don't operate with this mindset, that their profit and their success should be connected to economic development at the source. And I think this is hopefully something that we're doing can shine a spotlight on any industry, any business and maybe inspire some entrepreneurs, you know, to think a little bit differently. And I think that consumer that consumer voice that you mentioned is so critical because without that consumer demand for better and for transparency, it's just us kind of bringing something alone and it doesn't have that same compelling connection.
Laura D'Andrea
I'm going to talk a little bit about how we're going to bring that transparency in and stuff like that but I don't know if we want to touch on some questions and stuff. Are there any?
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Go ahead Destiny because I'm keeping track.
Destiny D'Andrea
Okay, cool. So I just want to thank everybody for just being here not just you know, you guys viewing but the panel. And you know, this mission My ascension journey has been a long journey, and it's led up to this point of being consciously aware of, you know, what matters and everything that these guys are talking about. I mean, you guys knew I love frankincense and have no idea about where it was coming from how it was harvested. The first couple of suppliers that I got and you know, launched the business or at least was getting it to you guys from, I had no idea where they were harvesting it from, they couldn't answer any of those questions. I didn't know anything about the quality, anything, and I've learned so much. So I thank you guys. But I really realized through my conscious awareness and my ascension journey that I'm not very consciously aware of where a lot of things that I use come from. So consumer consciousness has been something I really care about, especially with regards to building a business. I also believe that transparency is really important. So we're here talking to you guys about everything we want to do in these villages, and how, you know, buying frankincense from us, or whether it's the honey or the frankincense or the oils is going to positively impact these villages and the communities that harvest it for us. But how do we know if that's true?
Destiny D'Andrea
So a big part of the content going forward, through travel through building the business through these these interviews is to bring you that transparency to show you exactly where this where this how this business is positively impacting these villages, not just saying it but showing it to you. So the content is going to evolve. I want to take you guys on this journey. Well, me and my mom haven't met any of these guys in person yet. So I want to show you guys content of us meeting in person and going on travel. And you know, meeting Jamal's family. Jamal, I'm pretty sure we get our carterii and frereana from you? Yes. Right. So how cool would that be for us to know his family on a first name basis, the people that put their lives on the line to literally climb up mountains, to these trees and harvest these resins for us. These resins here, see this. See this? Somebody put their life on the line for this here. But we burn it by the times and we enjoy it. And we don't have any emotional connection to where it comes from - the land, the struggles, the people. So I want us as a tribe to have some serious pride I want as a business owner for me and my mom to weep tears because of what this business was able to positively contribute to these people. We want to build an emotional connection with the consumer and where it's coming from. Not just the product. You guys already love frankincense. Do you love and appreciate the harvesters? Do you love and appreciate the people who risked their lives and are in caves for two, three months at a time barely getting water and food. Jamal has had to bury his own family members that have died because of harvesting specifically frankincense.
Destiny D'Andrea
So let's be super consciously aware. Let's care. And then when we burn these resins, or we sneak them in our teas, or we use them as the medicinal miracles that they are, we have a certain gratitude and a pride. So this content, I believe, will allow you guys to connect in that way because I know you guys's hearts and your minds, and you guys will connect but you're like, connect where? I need to see it. I don't know. I know you guys can connect in the 5D, I want us to connect to this in the 3D to these people in the 3D and then in two, three years through all this content, all of this building, we can literally go to Somaliland, to Jamal and his family and say, look, look at this well, look at this daycare center. Look at the climbing equipment that these people are using now. That is saving lives every year, every harvest season. This is what I care about. Okay. I know I need to be a lot more consumer conscious. But if me and my mother are going to build the business, we at the very least need to be conscious about the business that we're building and care and yeah, I feel like I'm gonna cry. I'm emotional.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
We have a lot of emotion coming through in the chat. Someone said you know, um, I'm crying right now. We must aid each other in ascension. Hearing this definitely puts my life in perspective. Yeah, it resonates with people to describe it this way. And really what we're talking about Destiny, what we're all talking about here is decolonizing, frankincense supply chain. Supply is being handled as if it was still under colonization. That's changed with this group. That's no more. And really, for me as a scientist to to be up here with you guys is quite significant to align myself with a business model. I don't do that lightly. I don't join this panel today, this grouping lightly because I'm putting my reputation as a scientist on the line for it. And I'm doing that because I'm 100% sure of what we're doing. I know Stephen and Jamal really well, and I know what they're doing. And so I want to put my support behind that as a figure in frankincense to say, this is the solution. This is part of the solution right here. So yeah.
Destiny D'Andrea
Amazing. And thank you Anjanette for bringing us together. You know, it's pretty remarkable how you've brought us, you've paved the way for me and my mom to step into mission with regards to frankincense and I'll always be wholeheartedly appreciative for you. Thank you.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
All right back at you. So can I read a couple questions to you?
Destiny D'Andrea
Or can I do it guys? Let's do it. Ask any questions, ask away guys to anybody on the panel.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
One here is more of a comment. But I think it's a good question for Jamal and Steven. "I always see bags of frankincense for $1.50, but I didn't understand why the price tag didn't reflect the real value. What's happening there? Why are people seeing frankincense for $1.50?"
Stephen Johnson
Well, it's a combination of things. Let me just say it for frankincense in general. Number one, there is fake frankincense resin. A study in China found that something like 50% of frankincense resin isn't frankincense, it's synthetics that are put together. So I mean $1.50 is so cheap that it suggests it's fake, you know, or it's possibly some other kind of, you know, some other kind of resin, that's low value. And then the other thing, of course, is just that, you know, if you're seeing cheap stuff, that it's cheap, because someone is getting squeezed along the line, right? And that's, you know, Jamal can talk all about that.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
What is that? What is happening there that people are being squeezed to make the price of frankincense so low?
Abdirizak Mohamed
Oh, they get squeezed, because we need to think about this. They're not living the life we're living. So they haven't got food, they haven't got water, they haven't got all of this stuff. So they need all of this stuff. So these people are offering them food, maybe water still and given them maybe money they've given them maybe gallons of water, rice, and then tell them later on "Oh, we're charging you this much for this price for the stuff we're giving you. So we want to this cheaper price." So they're bullying the people there. I feel like these big companies don't care about anyone. And they don't know who they're getting it from. These middlemen are brilliant, all this promise and taking so much stuff from them for little amounts of money. These people can't fight back. Because they're stuck in the farm and they don't have anyone to fight for them. So hopefully that's what we want to do.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Yeah, it's a painful topic, because it's what I mean when I say we're trying to decolonize the supply chain, because the model is to just take as much as possible from the community and give them as little as possible. And that is so painful.
Destiny D'Andrea
Frankincense isn't the only industry where this is happening in Africa as well, right? You know, we've got gold we've got all kinds of natural resources, diamonds, you know, all kinds oil, you name it.
Laura D'Andrea
I was just going to jump in on you know, thinking about corporations. They are obviously not asking these questions about where are their ingredients sourced and how are they sourced and you know, coming from that background, corporations have a massive paradigm. If you think about it, they've been rewarded for low cost sourcing for years, low cost sourcing meant higher profit. And profit is the lifeblood of a business. So we're like this is a paradigm shift that has to happen whereby either the pressure from the corporation is going to be internal, or it's eventually going to be external, because the consumer is going to demand to know where the ingredients, especially precious things like essential oils are coming from. And those companies that put the pressure on themselves internally to ask those questions and make change will be the ones at the forefront, that will survive and will thrive. And that's really how I think this whole paradigm is going to shift. But it's going to be a meeting of this internal and external pressure, that that's going to eventually combust. So we're just sort of pioneers, we're, you know, a small company starting to edge this way. But it's going to be time for these bigger companies. It's going to happen, it's just a matter of, you know, do they take that initiative? Or do you the consumers force it?
Laura D'Andrea
Right. Wonderful. Well, on that, there's a question here. How do we hold companies accountable for this? Laura, let you go at that one.
Laura D'Andrea
Well, I think we were sort of touching on it. But I think it's asking questions about where the ingredients in the products are coming from. And if companies cannot answer you, and they don't know themselves, then you can suspect that things like Jamal just explained, that are happening at the source are likely happening. Because if they're not aware, it means they're buying it for the cheapest price that they can. And it's poor quality, by the way, what they're buying necessarily is not very good quality. But again, they've been rewarded for this low cost sourcing and low cost production for decades, upon decades upon decades. So it doesn't help when we don't ask questions. Because this allows companies continuously to continue doing these old habits and thinking in these old ways. So I think, especially when it comes to products that contain precious essential oils, like fragrances, like your cosmetic products, that these are questions that you ask of the brands, and you evaluate their ability to answer that question. And you gravitate as a consumer to brands who are fully being transparent about the changes they're trying to make, and the transparency that they're willing to offer you. I mean, that's how change happens is each one of us.
Stephen Johnson
Yeah, yeah. And I'd like to jump in there as well, real fast, and just say, I completely agree with you, Laura. And I would also make the comment that, for stuff like frankincense, it's pretty frequent, that there are not many perfect supply chains, right? It's very often that that there are many issues in the supply chain that are being confronted that that a company is trying to deal with. And so one of the best questions to ask is simply, you know, what kind of challenges are you seeing? What are the issues that you're encountering? And what are you doing about it? How are you approaching that, because I think it's not necessarily that we're looking for just total perfection, where we've isolated one little patch of forest that, you know, has nothing wrong with it and that's the only thing to deal with, there. You know, these are supply chains that have been exploitative, for a very, very long time. And there was a very well documented history of supply chains in frankincense and many other non timber forest products like it, where there are a lot of issues with equity and sustainability. And so it's not necessarily that we should avoid those difficult situations, we should engage with them and work to improve them and work to improve the lives of people that are dependent on them. So, you know, don't necessarily be surprised if you're not seeing that a company has a perfect supply chain, but they should absolutely be knowledgeable about what's going on. They should be able to talk about what are the challenges that they're seeing, what are the issues that that they see that need to be addressed? And what is their plan of action to address that and to me, that is the key marker of a business or an organization that you want to be involved with.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Yeah, so coming through on the chat Jaz Petty is reminding us that that the people who harvest it don't know what the people who are selling it are doing with it. And really that is true, because we have brought bottles of essential oil to chiefs. And he would smell it and look at me very oddly and say, "How did you get my tree in a bottle?" Right, not knowing what was happening with the frankincense when it leaves the country. We're also getting the question is: Do companies legally have to provide the information that we're discussing right now? And the answer in the United States is no. There's no legal component that they have to invest back in communities. There's regulations in Europe, there's some there's more regulations coming around this, but really no.
Stephen Johnson
And those regulations in Europe also, they apply to very large companies, but not for smaller ones. So they apply to companies that are first stages, over 3000 employees, and the final stage is over 1000 employees. But if you're under 1000 employees, you don't necessarily have to do anything with regard to your sourcing.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
So a question for you, Jamal, coming through is what's the role of women in the frankincense supply chain in Somaliland? What would a woman do?
Abdirizak Mohamed
Well, they do mostly is sorting. They sort the frankincense and they grade it - grade one, grade two, grade three - and then put them in bags. But the problem with that is it's a lot of dust going into their lungs. So the woman don't, I think they need a lot of face masks, gloves and stuff like that. But when it comes to climbing is very hard for a woman because we need to know is this Muslim country, they dress differently. So for them to climb up high mountains quite very hard for them to do. So the men do the climbing the woman do the sorting part of it. That's what they do. Yeah.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
So some other questions coming through? Do companies have to provide transparency of the supply chains and the roadblocks that they're seeing and how they plan to address it? And so, you know, we're also starting to bump up against the concept of greenwashing, which we should really be open with the audience about that. That there are often times where companies will greenwash which will tell lies about good things that they're doing in their supply chain. And so that's also problematic for consumers when they're trying to really understand transparency in the supply chain that they might be being fed greenwashing lies.
Laura D'Andrea
Well, I will say one thing, and I think that's exactly why, you know, Destiny's vision about the content is so critical, because we're really as consumers told certain things, and it's our choice whether we want to trust those brands or not. And I think probably Steven can speak to how blockchain technology potentially is going to help us in that matter, and kind of create a bit of a equal playing field around companies and their claims when it comes to their supply chain.
Stephen Johnson
Yeah, absolutely. So Anjanette, you're completely right. And there is so much greenwashing and frankincense, it's something that is a major frustration for me that that companies will say that they have all these wonderful practices, you know, with no basis in reality. I think there's a couple of things to do. Number one is just one of the best ways to address this is simply, if you as a consumer are educated about the kind of sourcing, about the harvesting systems, some basic information about what the community's experience is and you can start asking questions, you're typically going to be able to tell if this if the company knows what they're talking about or not. Often they have these lines that are that are sort of generalized marketing lines and they won't be able to address the details or any kind of deeper question. And so, you know, simply by asking questions and seeing if they can respond authoritatively and in depth with detail, that's going to be a good way to know that hey, do they know what they're talking about or not?
Stephen Johnson
The the point that Lauren made about the blockchain is a really cool thing these days. We're in a situation where we have technologies that help remove the the idea that we that we just have to trust what the supplier says. So the concept with Blockchain is that it's a technology where you can add information. In a nutshell, you can add information into this blockchain and then that information cannot be manipulated later on down the road. And that information can be in our case. So we're setting this up so that we're going to have blockchain transparency in our supply chain in Dayaxa. And the idea is that we're going to be able to add in pictures of trees, tree health data transactions with the harvesters community, you know, I work on community projects, movement of resins. So all kinds of information about this is what's going on on the ground. And there are always going to be opportunities to subvert any system, right? Whether it's a certification or blockchain or anything else. But with stuff like blockchain, you won't just have to take, you know, our word for it or anybody else's word for it, you can actually see yourself oh, what's the condition of the streets? Where is the resin coming from? You know, were the payments made as we said they were? So it's definitely very exciting to have things like that come up as opportunities to give some very radical transparency in what's what's going on on the ground and remove that element where it would be very, very difficult to greenwash that system.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Yeah. Thanks for that, Steven. We're getting close to the hour. So I'm gonna just do one more question. Veronica just asked a really good clarifying question. So Jamal, this one will be for you and I. Who on the team maintains the dialogue between the families or areas in Africa? And for Smudge Allot? Is it Jamal or Anjanette? Or is there another third party that is connected to the chain?
Abdirizak Mohamed
I'm in Europe right now, so I've got my business partner that's in Somaliland who lives there. And he's the one who has a contact with my uncles, and my family. And he tells them what we need and what we want. And he goes and actually looks at a product if it's right. And he takes a picture, sends it to Stephen, and Stephen gives the go, and then we go from there. But by May hopefully now I'm looking to move back now myself because my mom, my family, everyone is coming back to Somaliland. So I'm looking to move back in hopefully in the next couple of months or a year.
Destiny D'Andrea
That's exciting. Coming to the housewarming.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
And to completely clarify Veronica's question, my role in particular as the founder of Save Frankincense, and with my NGO, the Somaliland Diversity Foundation, I will be verifying the blockchain data. So I will be looking at the sustainability of the trees, I'll be reviewing the data of the financial transactions between Smudge Allot and the Dayaxa group. And so I am the third party verifier of the sustainability and the ethics of this partnership between the two business groups that you're seeing here. It's a pleasure and an honor, because this is moving forward. Now this is the positive steps instead of just being a scientist and publishing or just talking about the solutions. These are the solutions in action. And so this is exactly where I want to be doing this. And I'm so glad to be doing it on your platform Destiny with your tribe, it is just really amazing. And there's one last question, if the families knew what their products are for, what does that matter? Could they do anything about it? And Jamal, I have my opinion on that, which is yes, if they know the value of their product on the world market, they can bargain for themselves better.
Abdirizak Mohamed
Yeah,if they knew what the product actually is for the world, they'd have better bartering but still, they need the food and stuff to actually survive. So if you can't, if you can't get the right person to buy the right price, you will have to give a discount. So that's where we come in. And that's what we want to do, give them the right price, and hopefully help them out as much as we can.
Stephen Johnson
Yeah, and I know this is supposed to be the last thing, but I just want to say this real fast. This goes back to people being backed into a corner, right? Because if people know that the product is worth more, and they say, look, we need a better price for it. But the supply chains are opaque enough that a company can just go, okay, we're not going to buy from you, then we're just gonna go over somewhere else we're just gonna buy from from someone else. And the people there don't have any other options, then of course, you're going to get a situation where, again, people are constantly beaten down into accepting low prices and unfair deals. And so part of it is not only knowing what the value is, but then having a route to market with, with partners that are committed to actually changing the system, and that are not just here to get the lowest possible price and make the biggest profit for themselves, but that actually want positive impacts for everybody along the supply chain is the model. And that's this group. And that's why it's great to work with Smudge Allot because you guys believe in that just like we do And you know, we need to see more of that in the market rather than just a total focus on on low prices and not caring about what the impacts are.
Abdirizak Mohamed
Yeah, one more thing. People need to stop thinking about the product and start thinking about the people. The people are much more important than the product. That's the problem. People not thinking about that. Everyone's thinking about the product and not about the human that's actually going in and struggling through this.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Smudge Allot is carrying many different types of frankincense, right so you're bringing frankincense from all over the growing region? We're highlighting today Somaliland with with Jamal and Steven but these two guys are also working with other counterparts and others to be able to bring this approach from anywhere that the Frankincense is sourced so I'm sure you have a lot of people out there Destiny who have their favorite type of resin?
Destiny D'Andrea
Oh for sure. People love the honey, eh, Steven? People love the honey.
Dr. Anjanette DeCarlo
Great. Well, Destiny The floor is yours to wrap it up.
Destiny D'Andrea
All right, guys. I don't know what else to say other than I love and appreciate you guys wholeheartedly for just being here being open to this content. I know it's very different than what is a custom, you know, on the channel with the Tarot and stuff like that. And I love to read for you guys. But we've been doing this ascension journey for almost three years. It'll be three years in June. And this is what the ascension journey is about. It's about mission. It's about humanitarianism. It's about your conscious mind and heart connecting to your mission and creating positive impact no different than all the healing and positive impact you brought to yourself internally through your mission. Now you guys have graduated to a level where you can now bring this positive change you brought within yourself externally to you in the missions that matter most to your conscious mind and heart because it might be different you know, my love of frankincense brought me into this mission about you know, humanitarianism, consumer consciousness, conscious capitalism. It's my love of something. So tap into your heart chakras after all the healing you've done to tap into what you love and what you care about and what means something to you and and you'll be in mission like that. Alright, so anyways guys, thank you wholeheartedly and until the next time we see you keep letting your inner angels live. Thank you guys.